Guys,

Lets not lose focus. I see all your points. They are valid.
Please keep in mind a few facts:
a. We are not making products for the 3d printing community (so any effort in providing stl files is secondary)
b. we do know that any design can be copied ( I dont think the chinese read this forum )
c. alpha testing must include full spectrum of users (so that we can see what to expect in results that are not ideal)
d. there are people with CAD skills, much better than ours
e. no real copyright protection for small companies (try going after all that may copy you - not gonna happen)
f. patents can not cover everything - and they can be very costly to get. This design can not be effectively patented.


I personally am more interested in answering this question:
If you hadn't seen it, would you have been able to (imagine it and) make it yourself?

Would morf have come up with his "copy" if he hadn't seen ours? I say "copy" because he was able to copy the images from our site and project them as canvas in F360 to replicate it. So the SSD mounting clips are identical, but the base is not.

The original TerraPi design(s) will always be ours. We designed it and produced it first. That is what matters. Any derivatives that may come, will always remind people of the TerraPi and will always be compared to it. Will someone make a better one? Possibly yes! So it would be an improved version of the TerraPi design No copyright laws (and their expirations), protection, plagiarism or plain copy can take that away from us.
This thread on this forum is living proof of that

Do you consider the people who make 3d models of fan art, artists? They simply reproduce the original desing So if you make an stl of baby yoda, do you create art? I see Lucas Films being the creator (and they always will be) and the person who makes a "copy" into an stl, a person who piggybacks on their original idea

At some point (when our investment in this product is returned) we will release the files as Open Source, so those who own a 3d printer can print them. Some will try to sell them, and if they do, they will be promoting our brand (even unwillingly) since the design will always be ours.
I believe that answers the question (partially) if morf can share his files. He may even sell them, still the principal applies.

So far, we are registering trademarks only. Designs will come later.
We would love to not have to bother with production, logistics, shipping and the works... Until most households and companies will own (and operate) a 3d printer, it seems we will have to

Conclusion:
Can someone copy our design? Yes
Should they? And if they do, should they profit from it? This is more of a moral question, I leave the answer to each and every one of us!
Will they? Yes, it has happened, and will happen again
Are we upset? No, we are flattered!

I want to thank morf for opening this topic. It gives everyone an insight of how things work when 3d printing, with its potential, is involved.

Those questions are directed to all who care to answer You = "Vy" not "Ty"

It is an interesting topic and I do value all input. Some is realistic, some idealistic. Only trying can tell the outcome.
Short answers to your proposals:

Idea #1
To introduce a pilot sale sale of one of an STL of one Your existing design or a new design.
VERSION A) Distribute it as separate item in the store, so You'll have both printed and STL version and check the sales numbers.
VERSION B) User can buy the physical case but if one pays + 20% will receive a STL file as well.

Realistic. Maybe we will try it and see if it has any future as a product line.

Idea #2
Silly anti-thief solution to automatically emboss username or a pseudo serial number on STL file that is delivered to end user.
It will not stop anyone but might impact on the possible user that will at least think twice before sharing it online.

Silly (but could avert some indeed)

Idea #3
If you're worried about the quality that end user will end up with -> try to provide some simple guide, something like that:
Print settings https://github.com/gregsaun/bear_extrud ... ettings.md (Bear upgrade)
or a extrusion calbration https://guides.bear-lab.com/Guide/Extru ... diameter/8 (Bear upgrade)

Unrealistic. We are not a 3D printing company and we are not targeting 3D Printing enthusiasts. We cannot be troubleshooting printing issues on random printer setups and configurations with infinite variations of slicing, materials and user setups.

Our goal is to provide 3D printed (and not only) products around RPi and DIN Rail, to end users who (based on our surveys) do not own a 3D printer.
I think that this is where the confusion entered the conversation.
Your approach it from a 3d printing point of view whereas we see the 3d printing process as a tool to provide end products. Admitedly, some do own a printer and would like to print it on their own but we can't base our marketing and sales on this small percentage.

Comment about the negative review on our site: You can never satisfy 100% of users. As long as the majority are happy, we are happy

I really appreciate your input and ideas. User feedback is how products are shaped! As a token of appreciation, I would like to send you a TerraPi for free, and get even more feedback since you did take the time to design your own. Send us your address please!

I do hope that I make my point clear, that we are not attacking anyone here. I felt that I had to step in to the thread as the topic was directly related to one of our products, and defend the "honor" of Slovakia, who does read this forum

We are all entitled to our opinions and the moral of the story for me is that good things come out of constructive critisism.

morf pisze:Ahoj inux3d,

thanks for the reply!

inux3d pisze: The reason we do not share/sell the stl files is more related to the execution of the design. The material used is not cheap PLA and the technique of printing is very specific. Additionally, there are nuts and bolts involved that the end user would have to purchase to assemble the parts together. There are more than 10 bolts involved with specific tolerances, that many may not find easy to find/achieve.

I definitely do not feel entitled to indicate the direction of your sales department but the argumentation that You've presented (if it's the only one) it's just something I do not fully agree.

My design use only basic M screws and screws provided with SDD drive.It's not printed from "cheap PLA" but a prusament PETG.
Apart from that, just to be fair this particular stand will work just fine even printed from cheap PLA
Honestly speaking the design is so simple (no overhangs, no bridges etc) that I don't see any possible problems that even entry levels users may possibly have.

I agree that anyone with poor quality printer or not calibrated printer could have problems with printing this design, but most probably those users will experience same problems with other prints anyway.
Moreover when You look at the reprap world I'd say majority of the parts in our machines (printers) are 3D printed.

There are products being sold by big market players that recently have started to sell their products in a "hybrid mode" e.g selling non-printable parts + STLs.
Examples are presented in a YT video from Prusa:

źródło: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F93SMGQpZZk

Some companies give user a choice to purchaise a physical product or to buy a model and self-print.
If many of Your test group users fail to print it might also indicate that models should be better optimized for 3d printing.

For me personally it was a matter of time.
My version emerged as a result of my impatience I had a RPi and SSD in my hands one day and truly I didn't want to wait a week or more for the shipping.

Ahoj morf,

Valid points all around! We only have 2 questions for you:
1. How can you judge the quality of our product, if you dont have it in your hands? (we will ship one to you for free though- email us your address)
Your version looks alot like ours but its not the same ( good job btw - not bad at all)

2. What if, you sold stl files and one user started selling your product (that they printed). Would you spend your time going after them? That has costs that woudl impact your product price. Not ideal, right? How can you protect your IP and your investment?
Prusa has open sourced their product, but how likely will it be for a user to source all the parts from a hundred vendors (the electronics and metal parts) rather than just buying from Prusa at the end of the day?

We do have an internal argument about the benefits (and downfalls) of selling the stl files of our designs. Sure, many users would just download and print for themselves - no mistake.
But there would be many (who own a 3D printer and have free time) who would "consider" selling them and make a profit from our R&D and design, since they would only have to print and sell.

Ultimately, how much would you pay for an STL version? (not a trick question) Would you pay 5EUR? (for example)

We really appreciate all feedback! It is how the products and market are shaped and there are no right or wrong answers here!

Thanks,

Lev
CTO@INUX3D

mcxmcx pisze:

inux3d pisze:Bycie kopiowanym to największe pochlebstwo! Dziękuję!

And yes, Slovaks do read this page (FYI we are not all Slovaks here)
And yes, we have registered trademarks for our work.

We would reccomend that you spend your time in making original designs and not copy other people's.
But if you do copy it, please let us know! We will even post your work on our social media to show how succesful our design has been since other people want to copy it

We wish you all the best!

The INUX3D Design Team

Hi. Can you share your utility model registration details?

We are working on it, please give us some time. Thanks

Dear morf and community,

Thank you for your kind words! The fact that you "copied" our design is indeed the biggest flattery. We really appreciate it! (truly)
It is only a matter of time until the Chinese will copy it - that would be the seal of approval that the design is really good

We are not worried. It is part of doing business, especially when 3D printing is involved. Your design (judging from your pictures) is similar in spirit but has certain aspects that are not the same. And as you also mentioned, it is possible for anyone with CAD skills to "copy" it.

The reason we do not share/sell the stl files is more related to the execution of the design. The material used is not cheap PLA and the technique of printing is very specific. Additionally, there are nuts and bolts involved that the end user would have to purchase to assemble the parts together. There are more than 10 bolts involved with specific tolerances, that many may not find easy to find/achieve.

In early alpha stage of the design, we shared the files with some 3d printing community members to see how they would print and make it.
The results were from funny to tragic. Bad prints, toolmarks visible, wrong nuts resulting in improper fitting etc.
Now imagine these prints being photographed and shared via social media! Would that make people want to buy it?

You are free to share your files with anyone - they are your files after all. Please do not use our brand and product names though as this would be an issue. Selling them, is another matter, that may complicate things

Having a 3D printer does not make us "mini factories" on its own. It is a combination of things that does. Product design and development take a lot of time and effort. Marketing it, is a big challenge too. It is too bad that Europe has moved all of that to China in the last 30 years, and now we are seeing the results of that!


In the spirit of that, how about we make a design challenge?! Anyone from this community that has design skills, can submit a design for a Raspberry Pi case. It has to be ORIGINAL. This design, would be then printed and sold on our web site and they would get paid for it.
If you like the idea, please reply "I LIKE IT" and then we can make the terms and conditions of this more specific for the copyright, payment and other legal matters.

Again, many thanks and looking forward to the response our proposal gets!

Best regards,

The INUX3D Design Team

Bycie kopiowanym to największe pochlebstwo! Dziękuję!

And yes, Slovaks do read this page (FYI we are not all Slovaks here)
And yes, we have registered trademarks for our work.

We would reccomend that you spend your time in making original designs and not copy other people's.
But if you do copy it, please let us know! We will even post your work on our social media to show how succesful our design has been since other people want to copy it

We wish you all the best!

The INUX3D Design Team